Wetfish Online
Discussion Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: rachel on December 13, 2016, 08:40:59 am
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Just got a Carbon Dioxide meter a few days ago. Walked over to a park with Kayimbo to calibrate it--400 PPM of CO2 is currently the average outdoor concentration globally.
While walking around the neighborhood, CO2 concentrations were pretty steady around 400 - 420 PPM, depending on the breeze. The following is a list of our readings taken in various places:
Pedestrian bridge over the highway: 450 ppm with regular amounts of flowing traffic
Living room: 550 - 650 ppm
Kitchen: 700 ppm
Devnill's room: 850 ppm
Kayimbo's room: 900 - 1000 ppm (he always keeps the door shut)
Rachel's room: 650 - 700 ppm
Bamboo greenhouse: 400 ppm
It's really interesting to see how much the CO2 concentrations change based on human activity. For example, the initial readings in Kayimbo's room of 1000 ppm are only when he's inside the room. When he first came home from work the concentration was around 550 ppm, but it quickly increased as he spent more time in the room.
Some of the most interesting readings I noticed were when the oven was turned on. I was in my room (about 60 feet away from the kitchen) and over the course of a couple minutes the CO2 concentrations suddenly spiked up to 850 ppm. I went down into the kitchen to check the readings and it was over 1200 ppm. To be fair it kinda smelled like there was some pizza cheese that melted and dripped into the bottom of the oven and it was burning a bit. Still tho.
The furnace running also measurably increases the CO2 concentrations in the room by 100-200 ppm while it's on, but it quickly dissipates after the desired temperature is reached.
Conclusion: We need more plants in the house and y'all should probably buy some too. Especially if you live in Canada and never have the windows open.
Edit: If you'd like more information on the health effects of elevated CO2 levels, read this article: https://medium.com/@joeljean/im-living-in-a-carbon-bubble-literally-b7c391e8ab6
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Conclusion: We need more plants in the house and y'all should probably buy some too. Especially if you live in Canada and never have the windows open.
Any recommendations on plants? We are looking to decorate our kitchen windows and give our aloe vera plant a few friends.
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Conclusion: We need more plants in the house and y'all should probably buy some too. Especially if you live in Canada and never have the windows open.
Any recommendations on plants? We are looking to decorate our kitchen windows and give our aloe vera plant a few friends.
There's actually been a lot of research done by NASA on this (go figure, since they need to carefully regulate the environment in space). A lot of the "common houseplants" you see in stores are actually good for indoor air purification; things like spider plants, snake plants, even alovera. Honestly it wouldn't surprise me if these plants are found so commonly in stores specifically because of the research that has been done in determining which ones are best for home / office use.
(http://doongardeningsociety.yolasite.com/resources/Garden%20spider%20plant.jpg?timestamp=1347322701597) (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/91/Snake_plant.jpg/450px-Snake_plant.jpg)
This page (https://www.lovethegarden.com/community/fun-facts/nasa-guide-air-filtering-houseplants) has more information and a nice infographic, although it focuses specifically on indoor pollutants like benzene and formaldehyde, not CO2.
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This is great information thank you!
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It takes 40X those levels for CO2 to have any negative effects.
Don't let yourself be taken advantage of by agenda-driven crazies on the internet.
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It takes 40X those levels for CO2 to have any negative effects.
Don't let yourself be taken advantage of by agenda-driven crazies on the internet.
Sorry but you're wrong. These studies are very well documented. If you bothered to read the linked article you'd see that it was written by a PhD student and there are a dozen references to published studies at the end.
Occupational CO2 limits are defined by OSHA at 5000 ppm over an 8 hour period. Studies done on the ISS have shown that CO2 concentrations at 5000 ppm (0.5% of the air we breathe) have measurable effects from causing headaches and nausea to lethargy and difficulty sleeping. Other studies have shown that concentrations of 5000 ppm for extended periods of time lead to kidney calcification and bone loss. (source (http://handle.dtic.mil/100.2/ADA075625))
If you want more proof, this study (http://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/15-10037/) used a controlled office environment to test subjects at 500 ppm vs 1000 ppm. "Cognitive function scores were significantly better [at 500ppm] than in the [1000 ppm] conditions for all nine functional domains."
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A permissible exposure limit (which is where the 5000 ppm comes from) is different from an actually dangerous level.
OSHA says you can be exposed to CO2 at a level of 30,000ppm for up to 10 minutes
https://www.blm.gov/style/medialib/blm/wy/information/NEPA/cfodocs/howell.Par.2800.File.dat/25apxC.pdf
You know what the "horrible" effects of CO2 are on the body? It makes you tired. It makes you a little bit tired just like if you ran a little bit, because that's what happens when you exercise. The levels of CO2 in your blood go way up.
Are these hippy retards going to lose their minds over exercise next?
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The thing is, it's alot harder to regulate CO2 in a sealed tin can like the ISS so it makes sense why THEY would need to monitor it
You're never going to reach CO2 levels of 5000ppm in a fucking office building. And if you feel tired, open a fucking window? That's all they did in this "study". The lowest level of CO2 they used was the same level as outside air, and the study even states 100% outside air was used to simulate "Green+ buildings"
Wow, good job guys. People are happier and more productive when they aren't breathing the same recirculated farts for 8 hours.
This is what a Harvard education buys, apparently
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The thing is, it's alot harder to regulate CO2 in a sealed tin can like the ISS so it makes sense why THEY would need to monitor it
You're never going to reach CO2 levels of 5000ppm in a fucking office building. And if you feel tired, open a fucking window? That's all they did in this "study". The lowest level of CO2 they used was the same level as outside air, and the study even states 100% outside air was used to simulate "Green+ buildings"
Wow, good job guys. People are happier and more productive when they aren't breathing the same recirculated farts for 8 hours.
This is what a Harvard education buys, apparently
It seems like you have a personal bias against the idea that elevated CO2 levels are bad for humans even at sub-toxic levels. Here's another study (http://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/1104789/) that used an atmosphere controlled room (not just opening the window). There is a clear measurable impact on cognitive performance even at 2500 ppm, a concentration that can easily be reached in a classroom, meeting room, or a small bedroom if the door is kept closed.
(http://newscenter.lbl.gov/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2012/10/CO2-Figure11.png)
Here's an article (http://newscenter.lbl.gov/2012/10/17/elevated-indoor-carbon-dioxide-impairs-decision-making-performance/) explaining the study I just linked to with some more background on the research.
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Anecdotally, you have probably experienced the effects of elevated CO2 levels if you've ever pulled a blanket over your head when it's cold. I can't stay under a blanket for more than a minute or two before I get uncomfortable.
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It takes 40X those levels for CO2 to have any negative effects.
Don't let yourself be taken advantage of by agenda-driven crazies on the internet.
Buying house plants I was already considering to decorate with isn't being taken advantage of.
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From the study you are linking now:
"During the baseline sessions, with participants and outdoor air as the only indoor source of CO2, measured CO2 concentrations
were approximately 600 ppm. In sessions with CO2 added, CO2 from a cylinder of ultrapure CO2 (at least 99.9999% pure) was added to the chamber supply air"
This is the exact same testing method that the last study you linked used, albeit without the recirculation of air. I'm not questioning the effects of CO2. I'm questioning the argument that "global warming climate change trigger word dog whistle is making you dumb and my blog will tell you how" is an agenda driven pile of shit that has no basis in fact. All of these studies say one thing "Open a fucking window"
If you want to believe in the Boogeyman that's your prerogative rachel. You already went out and bought the meter just because of an internet blog. All I'm asking is that you don't spread this retarded hysteria.
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It takes 40X those levels for CO2 to have any negative effects.
Don't let yourself be taken advantage of by agenda-driven crazies on the internet.
Buying house plants I was already considering to decorate with isn't being taken advantage of.
Housplants no. Expensive CO2 meters, yes
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If you want to believe in the Boogeyman that's your prerogative rachel. You already went out and bought the meter just because of an internet blog. All I'm asking is that you don't spread this retarded hysteria.
You heard him rachel. Quit agreeing with your own research and listen to this IRC and Forum user. Stop spreading this shit because I'm three clicks away from buying a meter on Amazon because I'm a brainless cunt!
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Research that apparently missed the fact that the Medium.com article's PhD student is an electrical engineer.
Just saying "I have a PhD" doesn't actually make you qualified to weigh in on any subject you feel could be viral that day
Edit: I want to clarify,
I can disagree with the methodology of these studies, but that doesn't make the researchers assholes.
My beef isn't with these studies so much. Studies basically amount to "this is what I did, and this is what happened"
Someone who writes a viral blog to cash in on climate change hysteria to make a quick buck is, in my opinion, an asshole
He even suggests that people purchase CO2 monitoring devices btw
"Luckily, you can mitigate high CO2 levels in your living environment without too much trouble. If you want to collect your own data, buy a CO2 logger or air quality monitor?they start at $99 (consider Netatmo, Awair, AZ Instruments, or the more hardcore CO2Meter)?then act if necessary."
This is no different from when Fukushima happened, and everyone in Japan bought expensive radiation detectors because they were convinced they were being exposed to high levels of nuclear radiation. Telling people there is an invisible Boogeyman in the air that is killing them is a guaranteed way to spread hysteria and helps no one in any way. All it does is drive sales of detectors and increase ad revenue for sites like Medium.
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I'm not questioning the effects of CO2. I'm questioning the argument that "global warming climate change trigger word dog whistle is making you dumb and my blog will tell you how" is an agenda driven pile of shit that has no basis in fact. All of these studies say one thing "Open a fucking window"
If you want to believe in the Boogeyman that's your prerogative rachel. You already went out and bought the meter just because of an internet blog. All I'm asking is that you don't spread this retarded hysteria.
Once again, your obvious anti-climate change beliefs are getting in the way of your perceptions. I did not purchase a CO2 meter because I'm hysterical over an internet article. I purchased a CO2 meter for the same reason that I purchased a decibel meter, non-contact thermometer, and breathalyzer?I'm interested in the objective quantification of the world around me. I started this thread to share my findings and discuss the steps other people can take to mitigate elevated CO2 concentrations in their homes. Opening a window is great advice, but not so much for Canadians in the middle of winter.
With every post you change your argument. Originally you were arguing that the article was bogus and only high concentrations of CO2 are worth worrying about. Once it was shown that there are measurable cognitive effects at lower concentrations, you changed tactics to saying I'm a hysterical climate change nut.
If anything, the only hysterical person in this thread is you.
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>Once it was shown that there are measurable cognitive effects at lower concentrations
Based on a couple of studies involving about 20 people for a few hours over the course of a week? Yeah that is some rock solid evidence right there.
I'm sure there's no way that Dave's medication that day gave him a headache, or Shelly's dinner from the night before made her bloated and tired
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Go ahead and keep going with the personal attacks against me though. That's a winning arguement
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Anecdotally, you have probably experienced the effects of elevated CO2 levels if you've ever pulled a blanket over your head when it's cold. I can't stay under a blanket for more than a minute or two before I get uncomfortable.
I do this, but I always leave a space open for my mouth. That way I can breath fine and be warm!
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Anecdotally, you have probably experienced the effects of elevated CO2 levels if you've ever pulled a blanket over your head when it's cold. I can't stay under a blanket for more than a minute or two before I get uncomfortable.
I do this, but I always leave a space open for my mouth. That way I can breath fine and be warm!
Most nights I sleep with my face/nose under the sheets. It never feels uncomfortable and I'm not exactly sure why.
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Anecdotally, you have probably experienced the effects of elevated CO2 levels if you've ever pulled a blanket over your head when it's cold. I can't stay under a blanket for more than a minute or two before I get uncomfortable.
I do this, but I always leave a space open for my mouth. That way I can breath fine and be warm!
Most nights I sleep with my face/nose under the sheets. It never feels uncomfortable and I'm not exactly sure why.
I don't think sheets would be thick enough to trap a significant amount of CO2.
I should do some experiments!
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I don't think sheets would be thick enough to trap a significant amount of CO2.
I should do some experiments!
Technically they are blankets.
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This is no different from when Fukushima happened, and everyone in Japan bought expensive radiation detectors because they were convinced they were being exposed to high levels of nuclear radiation. Telling people there is an invisible Boogeyman in the air that is killing them is a guaranteed way to spread hysteria and helps no one in any way. All it does is drive sales of detectors and increase ad revenue for sites like Medium.
Or, maybe this doctor of electrical engineering is well versed in a multitude of fields, and through his own research found an anomaly in his indoor air quality and as a scientist felt implored with a responsibility to share his findings. I really don't think that they were being machiavellian while typing it up, thinking: "Hahaha, this is going to get me so many clicks"
I'd liken this more to the wisdom of buying a multimeter. It's a tool to determine many various faults in electrical equipment. From checking to see if it is the batteries are dead or a device is dead, to isolating a bad solder on a circuit board. For $100, I think an investment to see a slice of the invisible world of gas around us is not exactly hair-brained, especially when there is a wealth of independently replicated information that shows that having a lot of CO2 build-up keeps one from achieving self-actualization to the fullest.
I hope that you would agree that no one would competently say that getting a CO detector is a stupid idea.
If the only result of this is that a few more people wise up and get some indoor plants, and crack open the windows a bit even if it chilly outside, then I think the author of the medium post has achieved what they were hoping for. A life hack that has the potential to improve people's lives. We've only been living in tightly insulated indoor dwellings for a few hundred years now at most, and it would be surprising if there were not some unforeseen consequences from this. Being able to quantify and measure those consequences is what separates the ideologists from the scientists.
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If you don't live/work in a high risk area of CO2 exposure then yes it is a stupid idea to buy an expensive meter for no reason.
If you want to waste your own money then go for it, it's a free country. Just don't pretend that you're doing some kind of good for people by suggesting that they do the same, based on studies that have a sample size that could fit on a small bus. Some people will be frightened enough by the Medium article to waste money that would be better spent on food, rent, etc because the number one concern for most people is health.
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Just don't pretend that you're doing some kind of good for people by suggesting that they do the same, based on studies that have a sample size that could fit on a small bus.
Don't pretend you're doing anyone any kind of good either.
You are responding to a single isolated instance of someone sharing findings based on their own research without any of the exaggerated bullshit you are losing yourself in.
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*nothing useful to say just stackin' coral*
CO2 is cool guys great info super gr8 info love it =]]]]
(https://catchvimal.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/google-co2-carbon-footprint.jpg)
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Rachel you mentioned on IRC that you were buying a lot more plants. Can you redo the readings with various amounts of plants in the rooms to see how it affects the CO2 readings? Would be pretty interesting to see how much it affects the readings, and how it scales with number of plants
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Rachel you mentioned on IRC that you were buying a lot more plants. Can you redo the readings with various amounts of plants in the rooms to see how it affects the CO2 readings? Would be pretty interesting to see how much it affects the readings, and how it scales with number of plants
Yeah I'm curious about this as well but I don't think it's going to change a huge amount. Plants only account for a small percentage of the O2/CO2 composition in the atmosphere compared to algae.
It is estimated that marine plants produce between 70 and 80 percent of the oxygen in the atmosphere.
Source (http://www.ecology.com/2011/09/12/important-organism/)
Scientists believe that phytoplankton contribute between 50 to 85 percent of the oxygen in Earth?s atmosphere.
Source (http://earthsky.org/earth/how-much-do-oceans-add-to-worlds-oxygen)
The NASA studies focused on using indoor plants for phytoremediation?removing trace chemicals from the air (like ammonia and formaldehyde) that are released by household items.
...I've got an algae kit on my christmas wishlist... xD
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I'd be interested in the results from your science too! I'd imagine lighting conditions play a large role. Most people probably don't have a lot of sunlight reaching their indoor plants. As a hypothesis, algae should be more adept at performing photosynthesis under low light conditions, but regular plants can keep up during 16 hour full daylight cycles.
Plants are recorded as being exponentially more efficient at photosynthesis when CO2 concentrations are highest. Good for data analysis, since plants where CO2 build-up is the most should show the greatest effects.
Any chance on comparing between algae and plants in the bedrooms of the fish house during "daytime" sleeps? A big confound to the more plants = better thing, is that during no-light conditions plants tend to respire, or, also burn o2 and release co2. So, Having a tonne of plants in a bedroom at night could actually be worse for reducing CO2 levels while you sleep.
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...I've got an algae kit on my christmas wishlist... xD
Whoa, can you grow edible algaes with it? Let me know how that pans out if you get it, that sounds really cool
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...I've got an algae kit on my christmas wishlist... xD
Whoa, can you grow edible algaes with it? Let me know how that pans out if you get it, that sounds really cool
Yes actually! A company called "Algae Research Supply" sells kits on amazon:
- 5 gallon kit (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00KPGF6YY/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=10E1HJY9CCFAO&coliid=I4MK4XDH2V94V)
- "Research kit" for doing school projects (https://www.amazon.com/Algae-Research-Supply-Algaekit-002-Culture/dp/B00E9OFSKA/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1482018029&sr=8-3&keywords=algae+culture)
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Algae produce roughly 3/4 of the world's oxygen because roughly 3/4 of the world is water.
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have you tried to get a reading from inside the oven while it's on?
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Algae produce roughly 3/4 of the world's oxygen because roughly 3/4 of the world is water.
So does that mean 100% of the world's water is covered in algae?
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have you tried to get a reading from inside the oven while it's on?
Haha, um, I'd be concerned about my detector melting. How would you suggest taking readings inside an oven? Maybe a small tube going into the oven sucking the air out onto the sensor... Or I could just open the oven door a crack and hold the sensor above it.
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>but it quickly increased as he spent more time in the room
I know you're in there kayimbo. I can hear you breathing.
EDIT: Oops this is #dryfish. Rachel please don't ban me.
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Algae produce roughly 3/4 of the world's oxygen because roughly 3/4 of the world is water.
So does that mean 100% of the world's water is covered in algae?
No, just like 100% of the world's land isn't covered in trees.
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Subjective but, my house got a lot better after buying several snake plants, a peace lily, some ivy, etc. We have people with sensitive lungs and they just felt better after we had a bunch of houseplants.
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its time to recheck CO2 readings in my room. Probably doesn't help a i have a little co2 generator going all the time poisoning me.
Also we should check the algae box.
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hey um i just read the first page bc i'm not interested in what's crazy ass ranting but
the idea of different CO2 concentrations is something i've never thought about! is there any research on how super LOW CO2 levels affect human behavior? like i read somewhere once (i know, i know) that just a few minutes of medical oxygen can change your whole day.. i would like to think that filling my space with plants could make my Brain Better
also i'm reorganizing my bedroom and i think putting plants in could help a lot!